Now we are discussing instruction of Nārada to his disciple, Vyāsadeva. Such a learned scholar, Vyāsadeva. He’s known as Vedavyāsa, the authority on all Vedic literature. And he’s supposed to be incarnation of Nārāyaṇa, exalted position. Still, he requires the instruction of a spiritual master. That is the way of Vedic way. Avaroha-panthā, āroha-panthā. Āroha-panthā means inductive process. To know from here, from the lower status to the higher status, speculative method, or ascending process. And avaroha-panthā is deductive process, getting knowledge from higher authorities. So our Vedic understanding is to receive knowledge from the authorities. That is perfect knowledge. So there are three kinds of processes to receive knowledge: pratyakṣa, aitihya and śabda. Pratyakṣa means by direct perception, experimental knowledge. And aitihya, or anumāna. Anumāna, hypothesis, “It may be like this,” “Perhaps like this.” Just like modern scientists say, “Perhaps it is like this.” That is called anumāna, hypothesis. And another process is śabda-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. Śabda means sound vibration, and śruti means aural reception. So out of three processes, the śabda-pramāṇa, or receiving vibration, sound vibration from authorities by aural reception, that is considered to be the perfect.

Prabhupāda: This is the difficulty. “He is the most sinful, but we cannot give up His talking. That is our difficulty.” This is love. [indistinct] all life for Him, I love him [indistinct] all life forms I love Him. Similarly here, gopīs’ position is they are finding out so many discrepancies in the life of Kṛṣṇa, but they cannot give up. The difficulty is they cannot give up to stop this thought. Devotee: “ ‘But here is the difficulty: In spite of His being so cruel and hard-hearted, it is very difficult for us to give up talking about Him. Not only are we unable…’ “ Prabhupāda: This is called real love—that the lover may be most cruel, but still the lover cannot withdraw the love. That is perfect love. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ. This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. “Kṛṣṇa may be very cruel, but I cannot withdraw my love for Him.” This is real love. “If Kṛṣṇa benefits me, then I will love,” then that is not love; that is business. But “In spite Kṛṣṇa’s all cruelty, I cannot withdraw,” this is real love. That is only possible with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted that there is no better conception of worshiping Kṛṣṇa than it was contemplated by the gopīs. That is the topmost worship of Kṛṣṇa. There is no comparison. There are different grades of devotees, but nobody can be compared with gopīs, the topmost love for Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: Mr. Sarda has some relatives in London, and he was… The relatives were trying to force the girls to go to Nairobi, and they still, they did not want to go. So they ran away to Bombay. Prabhupāda: Huh? Śyāmasundara: They went to Bombay. Prabhupāda: They have gone to Bombay? Śyāmasundara: Yes. So they are living in our temple in Bombay. The two girls. And this father wants them to come home for some reason. They don’t want to come home. Prabhupāda: Hmm. I did not know all these things.

Prabhupāda: So bhāraḥ paraṁ paṭṭa-kirīṭa-juṣṭam. A silk turban with pearl, what is called, decoration, bedecked with pearl, these are the signs of king. Just like we decorate Kṛṣṇa with turban bedecked with jewels. So this turban is good so long we bow down before the Deity. Otherwise it is a great burden. Although it is made of silk, still, it will be a great burden. The idea is that if we bow down or surrender unto the lotus feet of Mukunda—Mukunda, Kṛṣṇa, one who gives liberation—then we can enjoy princely order or richness. There is no harm. But if we are lacking in that capacity to surrender unto the Supreme Lord, and simply we become puffed up with these riches, then it will be a burden. Burden means very soon everything will be lost. Just like you cannot keep the burden, heavy burden, on your head for a long time, similarly, this nice turban, silk turban, will be felt as great burden. This is the law of nature. If you misuse the power and do not feel obliged to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has given you the power, then you’ll be finished very soon. That is the history. Any nation, any empire, any man, as soon as one begins to defy the authority of the Supreme Lord, like Rāvaṇa, he’ll be finished. Sooner or later, he’s going to be finished. Just like Rāvaṇa: he was very much puffed up by his material opulence, and he did not care for Rāma. And he wanted the potency, energy of Rāma, spiritual energy, Sītā. And he kidnapped. He wanted that “I…,” that he did not like Rāma, but he liked Sītā. Sītā is energy. Woman and money, these are energies of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is puruṣa, and all other things are prakṛti. Prakṛti is enjoyed by the puruṣa.

Prabhupāda: So here is a responsible monarch, Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. It is not that some rascal gets some votes and some way or other he sits on the president’s chair and secretly doing all nonsense. Just like your President Nixon is now detected, so many things. The monarchy was not like that. Here it is clearly said, pravṛtta-vijñāna-vidhūta-vibhramaḥ. Vijñāna-vidhūta. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was thinking that “For me, so many people have been killed. So I have become very, very much sinful. I am not fit for sitting on the throne, such responsible throne.” But his misgivings were dissipated by the words of Bhīṣma. Bhīṣma, he is authority. Next to Kṛṣṇa, Bhīṣma is one of the authorities. There are twelve authorities: svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kapilaḥ kumāro manuḥ, prahlādo bhīṣmo janakaḥ. They are the authorities of piety, religion. There are… Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. We cannot decide what is actually piety, religion. But if we follow mahājana, great authorities, then certainly we are unmistaken. So Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, now all the Pāṇḍavas along with Kṛṣṇa, they have come to Bhīṣmadeva for taking his last instruction. He was lying on the bed of arrows for death. His father’s benediction was that Bhīṣmadeva would not die unless he desires to die. He was a very avowed brahmacārī, truthful. And Bhīṣmadeva recommended in the rājasūya-yajña that “Kṛṣṇa is greater brahmacārī than me. Although I am brahmacārī, but Kṛṣṇa is greater brahmacārī.” Why? “I am brahmacārī. I have avoided association of woman. But Kṛṣṇa, He was young boy and He had so many young girls friend, still, He was not sexually agitated. He is the greatest brahmacārī.” That is the recommendation given by Bhīṣmadeva. When Śiśupāla was criticizing Kṛṣṇa, Bhīṣmadeva supported Kṛṣṇa, that “What kind of brahmacārī I am? He is greater brahmacārī than me. I think I could not save myself, keeping myself amongst the young girls. No. But Kṛṣṇa can do so. He is real brahmacārī.” So therefore His another name is Acyuta, “never falls down,” “infallible.”

So dehinaḥ. Dehinaḥ means the one who possesses this body. That is meaning, the dehinaḥ. Just like in Sanskrit word, guṇinaḥ. Guṇinaḥ means one who has got some special attributes. [child cries, Prabhupāda chuckles, devotees laugh] He…, she is understanding more than anyone else. [laughter] Yes, yes. So asmin dehe. [child cries again] Now… [laughs] [laughter] He will create disturbance. Yes. So one profit, one loss. You get a child, and another side, you cannot hear. This is karma-kāṇḍīya. This is the material world. As soon as you get some profit here, another side loss. As soon as you want to construct a big skyscraper, the another side, digging earth. [laughter] Otherwise, where you get? You cannot create. The stones and bricks, you cannot create. You have to dig from somewhere else and pile here. And that is advancement of civilization, to be engaged in digging and piling. [laughter] [chuckles] This is called advancement of civilization. The rascals, they do not think, “Why, uselessly, I am digging and piling? After all, māyā will kick me out, and there will no more digging and piling.” But they are very much busy. They cannot come to hear Bhagavad-gītā. They are very busy. This is called māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is the fact. Chinese Communism will be perfect if they take little instruction from us. We are also Communist, Kṛṣṇa Communist. We want that everyone should be happy. The communistic philosophy is also like that. They want to see everyone happy. But they have made a materialistic center. That will not help. People are attracted to these bad habits of materialistic civilization. The most important is that sex and intoxication and meat-eating and gambling. So their attraction has to be changed. Otherwise, although these Chinese, they are pushing in the village, that village also will be a brothel. They must have some attraction. Where is that attraction? Just like the hippies, they do not like this civilization, but the attraction for the sex and intoxication they could not give up. So they remain the nasty again in a different way. The process should be mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. That attraction. Mayy āsakta. “The attraction which is…, should be changed to Me.” This yoga should be practiced. Then it will be all right. The same example: if you keep the dogs as dog, there is no possibility of making a peaceful dog society. That is not possible. You have to change their doggish quality. Then there will be peace. How you can expect peaceful society amongst the dogs?

Prabhupāda: …just like big, big tree grows. They have got intelligence, but their intelligence is applied in a different way. And every…, everywhere, every field of activity will require intelligence. Best intelligence is how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That’s all. That is the best intelligence; otherwise every field of activity is requiring intelligence. Without intelligence he cannot make progress. So the best use of intelligence is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and make life perfect. That is real intelligence. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura: anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is first-class man. That is the solution of life. Otherwise, you become very intelligent—you get some money, you get some prestige, some power—then what is there? Just after death everything is finished; it will not stay. Then you bring in another chapter, again struggling—either human being or cat, dog or tree or like that. That is nature’s law; you cannot avoid it. You are very intelligent, you have made your position very nice—that is all good. [aside:] Come on. But… [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. …if at the time of death everything is taken away, then where is your intelligence? Huh? Whatever you have got, your position now, in this body, is very good; therefore you have so much bank balance, you have got so much, how you say, so many things according to your desire, you have got it very good. But at any moment death will come and take away everything. Then what is your intelligence? [aside:] Thank you. Where is your intelligence? Whatever you have got you could not keep them; that you have to leave them and go away. Just like if you are giving me all these things, and if I know as soon as I go out of this door I cannot take this, [laughs] then what is the use? I cannot keep it.

Prabhupāda: No, that’s not the fact. It is misunderstanding. We are actually struggling for achievement of the highest goal of life. Otherwise, why we are writing so many books? It is for the human beings. And they are being accepted. It is not for the cats and dogs. This Bhāgavatam is not meant for the cats and dogs. So, vidyā bhāgavatāvadhi. In the beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo ‘tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavam vedyaṁ atra. Atra śrīmad-bhāgavataṁ vāstava-vastu-vedyam, what is actual life. So we are struggling to give people what is actual life. Kṛṣṇa comes down to teach us what is actual life. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. When people become cats and dogs, dharmasya glāniḥ… Dharmasya glāniḥ means cats and dogs, because in the cats and dog society there is no question of dharma. They simply jump over and enjoy life: eat, drink, be merry, enjoy eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That’s all. So if human life is also trained up in a polished way, the same principles, then where is the difference between cats and dogs? Dog is thinking, “I am this body—hound, greyhound,” and barking, “gow, gow.” Similarly, if we remain like that, in the bodily concept of life, that “I am this body,” “I am Indian,” “I am American,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim,” then where is the difference between dog and ourself? The human life is meant for understanding that I am neither Hindu nor Muslim nor American nor Indian. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is beginning of life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. “And what is Brahman?” Then life begins. The cats and dogs, they cannot think that “I am not this body; I am spirit soul.” That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. When Arjuna was thinking in the bodily concept of life, “My family, my brother,” and so on, so on, so he declined to fight. So…

Prabhupāda: Ṛṣabhadeva. Ṛṣabhadeva is the father of Mahārāja Bhārata, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa, from Mahārāja Bhārata. Formerly, the king of Bhāratavarṣa… The whole planet was called Bhāratavarṣa. So this… Before that, it was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa. So Mahārāja Bhārata, the eldest son of Ṛṣabhadeva. Ṛṣabhadeva was incarnation of God. So He advised His one hundred sons, “My dear boys, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattya.” Before retirement and making Bhārata Mahārāja the emperor of the world, He gave them advice. It is the duty of the father. Generally, we do also. Before retirement, the instruction is given by the father how to rule over the kingdom or manage the business. Anyone, as it is. So retirement was compulsory. Not that unless he’s shot dead he’s not going to retire. No. This was not Vedic civilization. At the present moment there is no Vedic civilization. Nobody is going to retire unless he’s shot dead. But Vedic civilization was not like that. Retirement compulsory. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—four divisions of spiritual order. Human life is meant for spiritual realization, and sense gratification is animal life. This meeting is for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. They cannot come here, neither they will understand what is going on here. A human body, human being, has the chance to understand the philosophy of life as it was enunciated by Ṛṣabhadeva.

Prabhupāda: There is no such word as “Hindu religion.” You do not know. There is no such word as “Hindu religion,” at least in the Vedas. The religion is translated into Sanskrit as “characteristic.” Religion is not a kind of faith. Just like chemical composition. Sugar is sweet—that is religion. Sugar must be sweet. Sugar cannot be pungent. Or chili must be pungent. If chili is sweet, we reject it, and sugar is pungent, you reject it. Similarly, our Vedic system is to train the human being to the ultimate goal of his life. That system is called varṇāśrama-dharma, gradually training the person how to become perfect human being and understand the goal of his life. That is our activity. It is not meant for any particular sect or particular nation. No. It is meant for the whole human society, how to make them perfect in the goal of his life.

Prabhupāda: …recently I said all these so-called gurus are either rascals, miscreant, lowest of the mankind, or they have no knowledge. [chuckling] Not directly; indirectly. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How’s that, Prabhupāda? Prabhupāda: That is fact. These rascals come here for women and money, that’s all. They do not know what is spiritual life. If I say like that, you think it is right or wrong? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You’re right. Devotee: Good idea. You didn’t compromise. Prabhupāda: Why compromise? [break] Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: …think the nondevotees would like to be classified in one of those four categories. Prabhupāda: But they are. They may not…, they may like or not like, it doesn’t matter, but they are. [break] Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: …that even persons who come to Kṛṣṇa with material desires, although… Prabhupāda: They are pious. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So is it to be understood that a very simple person who has all kinds of material desires, if he approaches God…? Prabhupāda: Because he has approached God, therefore he’s pious. Even though he has got material desires. Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā mokṣa-kāma. One day, he will become devotee. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to search God for some material benefit, but when he became perfect, he became pure devotee. [break]

Prabhupāda: If we say all these things, they will cut my head. [laughs] Therefore I don’t say in the public meeting all these things. But it is actually dog’s race. No value. Actually, no value. We cannot give any value to this type of civilization, running like dog with car. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I remember in South Africa, though, Prabhupāda, you called them, [laughs] at every meeting, dogs and cats. And afterward they were always applauding. [claps] Hari-śauri: He did that. [laughing] You did that in South India as well. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think that if… Prabhupāda: No, no, when I come in emotion, I cannot check to speak the truth. But actually it is the fact. I cannot give any credit to these rascals [laughs] who are running at high speed, big, big car. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What did we read? There was an article about Mars today. Hari-śauri: Oh. Nonsense. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists, again… Hari-śauri: They were speculating about… They sent this spaceship to Mars, and they were speculating that maybe now the so-called smog that covers the surface of the planet, it could be fog. It could be made of ice and water particles. So now they…, so they were speculating like that. And then they said they were going to land the spaceship in a valley at a certain point that is four miles deep and that may…, it may have been filled with water fifty thousand years ago, and it could have fossils in it from the type of life that existed there, if it existed. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fifty thousand years ago. [laughter] Prabhupāda: Scientist rascal. How ludicrous. Simply “maybe,” “if it was” and “it will be.” That’s all. Simply “maybe.”

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata-dharma, yesterday we discussed, dharmān bhāgavatān iha. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. From the beginning of life, from childhood, they should be given lessons on bhāgavata-dharma. The bhāgavata-dharma is very clearly indicated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā should be read very carefully, attentively, from the beginning of life, childhood. Not that Bhagavad-gītā should be read in old age. No. From the very beginning of life. And whole Bhagavad-gītā is bhāgavata-dharma. And when one is well conversant with the Bhagavad-gītā or the lessons of Bhagavad-gītā, then the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam begins. Bhāgavata-dharma means, as we have discussed yesterday morning, that Kṛṣṇa Himself is explaining bhāgavata-dharma. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiṣyasi. The real aim of life is how to go back to home, back to Godhead. They do not know it. Na te viduḥ. Generally, people do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum. All the Vedic mantra says. The Ṛg Veda mantra says, om tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padam. That is the… Everyone must meditate upon Lord Viṣṇu. Meditation means to think of Lord Viṣṇu within the heart. I think you have seen many pictures that īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe ‘rjuna tiṣṭhati, the Supreme Lord is sitting in everyone’s heart, and that Lord’s mūrti form is Viṣṇu-mūrti. So dhyāna, yoga, all this means to concentrate the mind in Viṣṇu-mūrti. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. Yogī, what is their business? Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā. Concentrating the mind, meditating upon the Viṣṇu-mūrti. Nowadays, they have invented some system of yoga, some light, something like that. But that is not the śāstric injunction. Śāstric injunction is to think of Lord Viṣṇu within the heart. He’s already there, and we have to search out. That is called meditation. That is called dhyāna.

Yaśodānandana: …pattern of the Bhāgavatam and follow the description. In the Chapter Sixteen, where it is expressed that “Bhū-maṇḍala extends as far as the sun spreads its light and heat and as far as the moon and all the stars can be seen,” that was the first verse. Then it describes that “The roving wheels of Mahārāja Priyavrata’s chariot created seven ditches in which the seven oceans came into existence. Because of these seven oceans, which are described here…” Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This was done before we began, by another artist. Yaśodānandana: This is the Jambūdvīpa planetary system. The complete is the Bhū-maṇḍala. This is Jambūdvīpa. This is the salt ocean, and these various oceans here, they correspond to the oceans which are described in the Bhāgavatam in that Chapter Five, Sixteenth Chapter, second verse: “Because of these seven oceans, Bhū-maṇḍala is divided into seven islands.” Then, in the third verse, it describes that this universe is the universal form of the Lord. The fourth verse describes… Śukadeva Gosvāmī says he will explain the Bhūrloka. In the fifth verse he starts to be more precise about the Bhū-maṇḍala planetary system. It says, “It resembles a lotus flower.” It has the shape of a lotus flower. “And the seven islands of Jambūdvīpa resemble the whorl of that flower.” Then, “The length and breadth of that island known as Jambūdvīpa…”