Now the next point is why does He come? That is explained in the next verse, that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati. As soon as there is discrepancy in the matter of discharging occupational duty. I purposely translate the word dharma as occupational duty. Everyone has got occupational duty. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also confirms it, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. The same word, dharma. Svanuṣṭhitasya, prescribed duty. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhiḥ, the perfection. How you are perfected by discharging your occupational duty, how it is tested. That test is svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhiḥ. Your occupational duty will be perfect when? Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam. When you satisfy the Supreme Lord by your occupational duties. That is dharma.

Each and every word of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, full of volumes of explanation, each and every word. This is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vidyā-bhāgavatāvadhi. One’s learning will be understood when he’s able to understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Vidyā. Vidyā means learning, not this science, that science. When one can understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in true perspective, then he’s to be understood that he has finished his all educational advancement. Avadhi. Avadhi means “this is the limit of education.” Vidyā-bhāgavatāvadhi. So here Nārada says that akhila-bandha-muktaye: “You should present literature for the people so that they can become liberated from this conditional stage of life, not that you should more and more entangle them in this conditional…” That is the main theme of Nārada’s instruction to Vyāsadeva: “Why should you present rubbish literature to continue the conditional stage?” Whole Vedic civilization is meant for giving liberation to the living entities from this material bondage. People do not know what is the aim of education. The aim of education, the aim of civilization, perfection of civilization, should be how people should get liberated from this conditional life. That is the whole scheme of Vedic civilization, to give liberation to the people.

Prabhupāda: So this is the situation. We have discussed in the previous verse that we are decreasing the span of life. The scientists will say, “No, we are making arrangement so that by science we shall make man immortal.” Vikatate[?]. When a man becomes mad, he speaks so many nonsense. Like a child: a child also speaks so many nonsense things, and the parents enjoy it. Similarly, the so-called scientist, when he says that “By scientific method, we shall stop death,” so there is no evidence in the history of the human society that a man has not died. That cannot be. Hiraṇyakaśipu, he was also atheist and materialistic. He also tried to become immortal. And he made a plan, negative plan, to cheat Lord Brahmā, that “I shall not die in this way, in this way, in that way, in this way, that way.” But still he was killed. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. Kṛṣṇa says that “I am death, and at the time of death I take away everything.” Sarva-haraś ca. So we cannot cheat God or His law. That is not possible. We may be very intelligent to cheat here the police or the government or the laws, but it is not possible to cheat the supreme laws. That is not possible. Therefore, in order to avoid the superintendence of the Supreme Lord… Because there is superintendence; as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you have read, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: “Under My superintendence the law of nature is working.” So we are under the laws ...

We are speaking from Bhagavad-gītā. I think most of you know this book, Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is sometimes translated in foreign languages, “The Song of God.” In other words, God Himself speaking. So far we are concerned, we cannot understand God by mental speculation. Even in this material world, we cannot understand what is there in the planetary system. So our knowledge is very, very limited. Besides that, we have got four deficiencies. The one deficiency is that we commit mistake. Anyone, any big man of this material world, he commits mistake. Besides that, he is illusioned. Illusioned means to accept something what is not fact. Just like… [coughs] [aside:] Water. We accept this body as self. This is called illusion. According to Vedic understanding, anyone who thinks of this body as the self, he’s animal. Just like a dog, he thinks that he is the body, similarly, if a man thinks that he is this body—he is American or Indian or Frenchman or German or Hindu or Muslim, with this bodily concept of life—so, according to Vedic understanding, this conception is animal conception. So this is called illusion. Then next item is cheating. Cheating means with imperfect knowledge one takes the place of a teacher. And the last deficiency is that our senses are imperfect. It is not independent; still, we are very much proud of our senses. For example, atheist class of men, they say that “Can you show me God?” He does not think whether he has got any ...

Prabhupāda: What do you understand by the word māyā? Yogeśvara: “That which is not.” Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Things which we place value on that have no relation to Kṛṣṇa. Prabhupāda: Hmm. The māyā is explained very nicely in the Bhāgavata, yathābhāso yathā tamaḥ [SB 2.9.34]. Just like sun is reflected in the water, and the light is reflected again on the wall. This is the exact explanation of māyā. Reality… This material world, the man who manufactured all these things, nobody knows where he has gone. But these things are taken as reality. This will be also finished. It will remain as relics, as Rome, relics, but when it was…, the houses were prepared with great enthusiasm as reality. And now it is as relics. So the energy expended for manufacturing those house, that is also māyā, and now they are being visited as relics, that is also māyā. So all these things are māyāra vaibhava, expansion of māyā. So if somebody says that you don’t appreciate these things, no, we appreciate, very much appreciate intelligence. But if you, for this appreciation, if you forget, then it is māyā. Forget Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So that is insanity. We are actually the living force, soul, but we are identifying at the present moment with the material body. Everyone is thinking, “I am Japanese,” “I am Englishman,” “I am German,” “I am Indian,” “I am white,” “I am black,” but that is his insanity. So this insanity should be cured, that “I am not this body; I am spirit soul.” And when he understand that he is spirit soul, he should be engaged in the business of the spirit soul. And because he is misidentifying himself with this body, he is engaged with the bodily activities. So when he stops his bodily activities and he begins his spiritual activities, then he will be cured. So far bodily, I mean to say, pains and pleasure, that will be automatically cured when he understands that he is not body. Just like I feel heat and cold on account of this body.

Prabhupāda: So in the Vedic language, one who has taken this body as self, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13], and sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, and own men, the family, society, community, national—not outside that—sva-dhīḥ, “They are my own men.” Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and the land of birth worshipable, nationalism, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit, and holy place, to take bath in the water of Jordan or Ganges, such persons are considered as go-kharaḥ. Go means cow; kharaḥ means ass. That means animals. What is your conception of the soul? Do you believe in the soul?

So who does not want abhayam? Abhayam means fearlessness. Everyone wants. Because by material nature we have got four positions. One position is always fearful, “What will happen next?” Even the big man, President Nixon, he is also fearful, “What will happen next?” Because so many charges are being brought against him, although he is on the very exalted position, president of USA, but he has…, he is also always fearful. This is the nature, material nature. Can anyone say that he is not fearful? Is it possible? Then what to speak of us. As you require to eat something… This is material existence, eating. Then after eating, rest, sleeping. Then after rest, sex indulgence. Similarly, fearfulness.

Prabhupāda: Who is my disciple? First of all let him follow strictly the disciplined rules. Makhanlāl: As long as one is following, then he is… Prabhupāda: Then he is all right. Makhanlāl: …above those lower levels. Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise, why there is need of regulative principles? He is immediately liberated. If he thinks that “Because I have taken to, I am liberated,” then why the rules and regulations? Makhanlāl: But as long as he follows the rules and regulations. Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] Makhanlāl: …the brahma-bhūtaḥ platform, brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], immediately? Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhagavad-gītā it is said, māṁ ca yo ‘vyabhicāreṇa [Bg. 14.26], unalloyed. Bhakti-yogena sevate: then he’s liberated. If it is vyabhicāreṇa, sometimes falls down, sometimes…, then it is within sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. The word is māṁ ca yaḥ avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena: pure bhakti-yoga. Hari-śauri: Without any falldown. Makhanlāl: Falldown means deviation from the orders of the spiritual master. Prabhupāda: Yes, that is vyabhicāreṇa, that is not avyabhicāreṇa. If you are subjected to the attraction of māyā, that is vyabhicāreṇa.

Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved—moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance, and spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tama. Tama means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. “Don’t remain in darkness.” But people cannot understand. “I am living in the light. Why I’m darkness?” So darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is “Don’t remain in darkness. Come to the light.” The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you’ll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance. A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not ...

But… [break] …the symptoms of birth, one can understand, of course, through abhijñā, those who are abhijñā. And the word is used guṇabhijñā jñāpakaḥ. Guṇābhijñā, guṇābhijñāpako yathā. By the guṇas, one can—guṇa means quality—one can understand the past and future. Still in India there is an astrological system, it is called Bhṛgu-saṁhitā. That Bhṛgu-saṁ… According to that Bhṛgu-saṁhitā, the astrologer can say what the man was in the past and what he’s going to be in future. And present also. So, generally we can understand from the śāstra that according to guṇa—sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa—those who are in sattva-guṇa, they are going higher planetary system; rajo-guṇa, in the same platform; tamo-guṇa, going down. So the human endeavor should be how to increase the sattva-guṇa quality of the man. That is the duty of all guardians. State, king, government—everyone should. If you do not make such attempt to elevate your dependent towards the sattva-guṇa platform, simply lamenting, what will do good to you? “Our position is this. Now it is uncontrollable, the things are going bad, there are problems.” Yes, problem must be there, because the aim of life should be known. They do not know. The modern civilization, they do not know what is the aim of life, how life is going on, eternally, how it is implicated, how to entangle. So many things are there; it is a great science.