Prabhupāda: The person in knowledge, he must see that “I cannot avoid death, I cannot avoid birth, I cannot avoid old age, I cannot avoid disease so long I have got this material body.” But Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]: “Anyone who understands Me in reality, what I am, then he immediately becomes immune from these four things.” Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. After giving up this… This body we have to give up. And then next body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir… [Bg. 2.13] So a devotee at least is not going to be cats and dogs or trees. The nondevotees, they are. Now they are… Now the modern advancement is to be naked. So these people are going to be trees. You know Yamalārjuna. You have seen the picture. They were dancing, and they were taking bath naked, and they were not ashamed when Nārada Muni was passing. So he cursed them that “You are so fool, you have lost your sense. All right, next life you become a tree, immediately.”

So the atheist are divided into four classes. Number one is duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means they have got merit. Kṛti means meritorious. The modern men, they have got merit. Especially the Western people, they have got nice merit. Just like while passing through the city, we saw very nice buildings. So to construct such buildings it requires merit, undoubtedly. But what for this building? Duṣkṛtina, only for committing sinful life. Therefore it is called du, duṣkalya. Meat-eating, illicit sex, intoxication and gambling. Meritorious they are undoubtedly for constructing this building, but what is the purpose? The purpose is sinful activities. These things are going on. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. And mūḍha. Mūḍha means they cannot understand what is God. It is very simple thing. Anyone can…, a child can understand. Take for example your body, my body. What is the important thing in the body? The soul. Without the soul, you may be very big man, even Napoleon Bonaparte, but as soon as the soul is gone, it is useless. The whole world is useless. Anyone can understand. Where is now Napoleon Bonaparte, who struggled so much for glorifying France? But where is that gentleman? Finished. As soon as the soul is gone… You may keep one statue, dead statue, that is another thing. But you do not know where the soul has gone and what he is doing now.

Prabhupāda: The point is that supposing this twenty to thirty-six years is nice age… For women. But before twenty years, she is sacked, and her health is broken. What she’ll produce, children? Because this is… The girls, from twelve years, thirteen years nowadays, they begin sex. Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That’s true. Prabhupāda: Is it not? Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That’s true. Prabhupāda: So before she reaches twenty years, twenty times she must have taken contraceptive method. And that means her health is ruined. What she’ll produce? They are given in the schools, colleges, contraceptive tablets. And they are prohibiting, “Don’t get child before twenty years.” What is this nonsense? This is the difficulty. All rascals, they have taken leadership. Women should…, should be allowed to beget children as soon as they’re able. But as soon as the pregnancy is there, there should not be any sex life. They have got sex life in pregnancy also. So many things, we are… We can guide them all, all these rascals. From śāstra, we can guide them. Therefore immediately human society, a class of men who are fully conversant with the Vedic conclusion required to guide these rascals, socially, politically, in every respect.

Prabhupāda: …people, by not believing in the next life, they have dismissed all problems. Very happy life. Bali-mardana: They have one saying, “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you’ll die.” Prabhupāda: That’s right. Very good civilization. [break] …Āryan civilization. This is not Āryan civilization. Barbarian. [break] A small child, he knows that “I shall become like my elder brother. I shall get this body, next body.” And these people, they cannot understand that there is next body. That means their civilization is less than a child’s civilization. [break] …dehantara prāptiḥ. Bali-mardana: Even every child knows that “When I grow up, I will have a different body,”… Prabhupāda: Yes. Bali-mardana: …but they do not know. Prabhupāda: These people, they do not understand. What kind of civilized men they are? Less than a child, and they are proud of their science. [break]

This seven days’ discussion is imitated by the professional Bhāgavata reciters in India. But that is not required. We have to hear Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam daily. Parīkṣit Mahārāja had only seven days left in his life; therefore he hurriedly finished the reading of Bhāgavatam. But, of course, he had seven days assured. We haven’t got seven minute assured. We can die at any moment. Anyway, the recommendation is nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. We should read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam daily. Simply you go on reading. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā. Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā [SB 1.2.18]. We have no taste for reading and hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but the taste will be created if we even by force sit down and attend Bhāgavata class. The taste will be created. How it will be created? Just like a person suffering from jaundice, if you give him sugar candy, it will be tasted by him as bitter. This is very practical example. He will say, the patient suffering from jaundice, he will say it is bitter. But sugar candy is not bitter. And at the same time, for jaundice-diseased man the sugar candy is the only medicine. If you give him sugar candy, water, sugarcane, then it will…, he will be cured very soon. And papaya. These things are recommended for jaundice patient. Similarly, the discussion on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam may not be liked by me in the beginning, but if we hear… Just like child does not want to go to school, but if you force him to go, gradually ...

Prabhupāda: …next life, on account of his sinful activities he, if he becomes a dog in the same land, then what is the benefit? Everyone will treat him as dog, even though somebody knows, “This dog was formerly our prime minister.” [laughter] Then what is the benefit? To remain in the prime minister’s post, and next life he’s going to be a dog, then what is the benefit? Devotee: Hardly any. Prabhupāda: Hmm? Discuss amongst yourselves. This is the point. We have got a short duration of life, and we declare independence of the laws of nature, laws of God, and do whatever we like, and as a result of our activities, we are obliged to accept a body which is not desirable. Then where is my independence? Why do they think very independent and act independently? Is it not foolishness? Discuss amongst yourselves.

Prabhupāda: …from the ground. So the tree is the son, and the earth is the mother. So what is the wrong argument there? We have got experience that a child is coming from the womb of the mother. So why we should suggest a nonsense creation, that there was a chunk and there was creation? What is this? Talk on this point. Where is your experience that all of a sudden a chunk dropped and there was creation? We have got experience that creation is there. Mother is there, and a child is coming. This is the creation. So wherefrom this idea comes, that without father and mother, creation is possible? What is his argument? He is great scientist. Let him… Hṛdayānanda: Chief rascal. Rādhā-vallabha: They say that nature takes care of it all. Prabhupāda: What? Then why nature did not take care of you? [laughter] Therefore you are a rascal.

Prabhupāda: Hitler one side, fought with the Britishers, smashed them. This is one cause. Another cause: Hitler helped Subhas Chandra Bose to organize I.N.A. Two causes, the Britishers to go away. Otherwise, Gandhi’s noncooperation movement was started in 1917, and we got our independence in 1947. Indian man: Thirty years. Prabhupāda: Thirty years he could not do anything. And Subhas Chandra Bose in 1940 or ‘42, he went out of India and organized this I.N.A with the help of Hitler, and the Britishers were obliged to leave India. What do you think? That is my estimation. Indian man: Yes, I think so too. Yes, and he is also… Prabhupāda: And Hitler not only helped Subhas Chandra Bose to organize this I.N.A. organization, but by fighting with the Britishers, he smashed… The British lion was bandaged. There was a cartoon picture. I’ve seen in that way. The lion is lying down and bandaged, [makes some gestures] here and here and here, there, patched, British lion. [laughter] That’s a fact.

In the Christian religion they do not believe karma, that I did something in my past life. “Where is the evidence that I did something, therefore I am suffering?” They take the analogy: just like a criminal in the court is convinced when there is sufficient witness, not that I have complained against you, and you go to the court, you are punished. No. My charges against you should be corroborated by sufficient witness. So the Christian religionists, they do not believe in the next birth, transmigration of the soul, something like that. So they do not believe also in the fruitive activities’ resultant action of our past life. This very word “witness”… It is my personal experience. I was student in the Scottish Churches College in Calcutta, and we had to attend half an hour Bible class. So Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he was teaching, Reverend W. S. Urquhart. He said, I remember, that “Where is the evidence? The Hindus believe in the karma, but where is the evidence that I did it?”